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#31
Instrument BARS & tuning / New graduation of bar lengths
Last post by neena - April 08, 2013, 01:37:04 AMHello-
I'm working on customizing a glockenspiel design, making the bars wider (1-1/4" or maybe even 1-1/2"), and thicker... 3/8". The bars will also have to be longer than the original design offered here.
I need to figure out how to create a new bar length graduation so that all the nodes will line up right on the frame.
Someone has told me that if I just "invent" the length of the shortest bar (Call it "S"),
and "invent" the length of the longest bar ("L"),
I can subtract the shortest bar from the longest bar and divide it by the number of bars ("N")
and the results will equal the amount ("A")
between what each bar length should be so the nodes will line up. So, to look a little like algebra it would be:
("L" minus "S") divided by "N" equals "A"
OR:
20"-10" divided by 20 equals a half inch.
(these numbers are just to make the example easy for me)
But yet, I think I may be missing something here. Maybe "N" should not actually equal the number of bars... but the sum total of all the widths of bars next to each other (either "white" or "black") plus the sum total of all those spaces in between those bars.
So... am I on the right track? What am I missing?
Thanks!
I'm working on customizing a glockenspiel design, making the bars wider (1-1/4" or maybe even 1-1/2"), and thicker... 3/8". The bars will also have to be longer than the original design offered here.
I need to figure out how to create a new bar length graduation so that all the nodes will line up right on the frame.
Someone has told me that if I just "invent" the length of the shortest bar (Call it "S"),
and "invent" the length of the longest bar ("L"),
I can subtract the shortest bar from the longest bar and divide it by the number of bars ("N")
and the results will equal the amount ("A")
between what each bar length should be so the nodes will line up. So, to look a little like algebra it would be:
("L" minus "S") divided by "N" equals "A"
OR:
20"-10" divided by 20 equals a half inch.
(these numbers are just to make the example easy for me)
But yet, I think I may be missing something here. Maybe "N" should not actually equal the number of bars... but the sum total of all the widths of bars next to each other (either "white" or "black") plus the sum total of all those spaces in between those bars.
So... am I on the right track? What am I missing?
Thanks!
#32
Instrument BARS & tuning / Re: Glock-Talk
Last post by neena - January 17, 2013, 12:47:08 AMThanks for your suggestions Jim!
I'm afraid I'll be asking a lot of questions as I muddle through these building processes.
Back to the subject of cheaper aluminum glocks, I own two:
One has bars that are 1" wide and uncoated.
The other has bars that are 1 1/4" wide and they have a matte ceramic finish that I believe is baked on them. Interestingly enough, the glock. with the ceramic finish has a much nicer tone that decays more quickly, which I prefer. I wonder if this is due to the ceramic coating or the width of the bars.... I believe the thickness of the bars is the same.... 1/4".
I guess I'm really after making the ultimate thrifty glock. I'm going to try for bars 1 1/4" wide (because the target area is bigger and makes them easier to play) and go for a two and a half octave range, starting on the F below the C that the plans start on, and ending on three C's above that low F.
I'm afraid I'll be asking a lot of questions as I muddle through these building processes.
Back to the subject of cheaper aluminum glocks, I own two:
One has bars that are 1" wide and uncoated.
The other has bars that are 1 1/4" wide and they have a matte ceramic finish that I believe is baked on them. Interestingly enough, the glock. with the ceramic finish has a much nicer tone that decays more quickly, which I prefer. I wonder if this is due to the ceramic coating or the width of the bars.... I believe the thickness of the bars is the same.... 1/4".
I guess I'm really after making the ultimate thrifty glock. I'm going to try for bars 1 1/4" wide (because the target area is bigger and makes them easier to play) and go for a two and a half octave range, starting on the F below the C that the plans start on, and ending on three C's above that low F.
#33
Instrument BARS & tuning / Re: Glock: Aluminum Grade?
Last post by Jim McCarthy - January 16, 2013, 05:43:45 PMWell yes I would definitely recomend the 2024 in your situation then. As previously mentioned the "simple glock" guide is really aimed at a result probably similar to those less than awesome instruments you already have. Don't get me wrong it works fine - but its concept was as a simple and inexpensive instrument rather than a pro sounding one. The PV vibes is a different story and you can get a pro result there of course. If you want to get a truly pro glock sound - I would also reccomend slightly longer bar sizes - particularly in the top end - so you would have to work out a new "graduation" of bar lengths - and thicker stock also - go for at least 1/4" thick metal and anything up to 1/2".
#34
Instrument BARS & tuning / re: Glock: Aluminum Grade?
Last post by neena - January 15, 2013, 07:14:51 PMHi Jim-
I guess I should clarify that I want to make the glockenspiel to practice working with aluminum before I attempt to make the vibraphone.
I know how much better steel sounds on a glock than aluminum, but I don't want to work with steel yet.
So.. I just want to make the nicest tone for a glock possible (with aluminum) since I already have a couple tinny-sounding cheap student models.
If I understand your post correctly, using 2024 T3 for both the glock and the vibes would make the nicest tone that aluminum can produce. Am I right?
I guess I should clarify that I want to make the glockenspiel to practice working with aluminum before I attempt to make the vibraphone.
I know how much better steel sounds on a glock than aluminum, but I don't want to work with steel yet.
So.. I just want to make the nicest tone for a glock possible (with aluminum) since I already have a couple tinny-sounding cheap student models.
If I understand your post correctly, using 2024 T3 for both the glock and the vibes would make the nicest tone that aluminum can produce. Am I right?
#35
Instrument BARS & tuning / Re: Glock: Aluminum Grade?
Last post by Jim McCarthy - January 15, 2013, 05:03:53 AMHi Neena
Well it all depends - strictly speaking a pro grade glock is generally made with steel bars rather than aluminium. There are aluminium gloacks made and in those cases it applies much the same as it would for a vibraphone. The SG simple glockenspiel mentioned in the makeamarimba.com website is exactly that - a simple instrument, and as such it does use aluminium bars - and what sort matters very little. If you want a pro glock though go with thicker steel bars.
For the vibes - well it is not quite true that the material is less critical - it is true that the bars do have resonators to amplify the sound - but because of the lower pitch range they also require it more. The fans will not really help the tone in any way - they just provide the vibrato effect.
For a vibraphone the T number - which is temper - can be important - but not as important as the actual alloy type itself. ANY alloty will make a tone - no doubt - but if you want a well known standard - go for 2024 T3 - this is what used to be called "Duralumin" in the old days in the aircraft industry, and it is the exact alloy that Musser have/do use for their vibraphones. A very common grade of aluminium in construction is 6061 - usually either T5 or T6. Both are ok - they are more corrosion resistant and heat tolerant than the 2024 - but not quite as strong and in my opinion the tone is not QUITE as good. The high copper content in 2024 is what provides the strength and sustain. In 6061, the primary alloying componants are silicone and magnesium I think it is - hence the resistance to corrosion and lower tensile strength..... the sustain you get there is more about the temper - a harder temper in that case is best.
Hope that helps!
Jim
Well it all depends - strictly speaking a pro grade glock is generally made with steel bars rather than aluminium. There are aluminium gloacks made and in those cases it applies much the same as it would for a vibraphone. The SG simple glockenspiel mentioned in the makeamarimba.com website is exactly that - a simple instrument, and as such it does use aluminium bars - and what sort matters very little. If you want a pro glock though go with thicker steel bars.
For the vibes - well it is not quite true that the material is less critical - it is true that the bars do have resonators to amplify the sound - but because of the lower pitch range they also require it more. The fans will not really help the tone in any way - they just provide the vibrato effect.
For a vibraphone the T number - which is temper - can be important - but not as important as the actual alloy type itself. ANY alloty will make a tone - no doubt - but if you want a well known standard - go for 2024 T3 - this is what used to be called "Duralumin" in the old days in the aircraft industry, and it is the exact alloy that Musser have/do use for their vibraphones. A very common grade of aluminium in construction is 6061 - usually either T5 or T6. Both are ok - they are more corrosion resistant and heat tolerant than the 2024 - but not quite as strong and in my opinion the tone is not QUITE as good. The high copper content in 2024 is what provides the strength and sustain. In 6061, the primary alloying componants are silicone and magnesium I think it is - hence the resistance to corrosion and lower tensile strength..... the sustain you get there is more about the temper - a harder temper in that case is best.
Hope that helps!
Jim
#36
Instrument BARS & tuning / Glock: Aluminum Grade?
Last post by neena - January 15, 2013, 01:46:49 AMWhat would be the best grade of aluminum for the absolute best pitch on a Glock? I assume it's really more critical on a glockenspiel than a vibraphone, since you don't have resonators or motorized fans helping the tone.
In the online ad for these plans about vibraphones, there are 3 types mentioned, something like T4, T5 & T6. I'm also wondering if using a different (cheaper) type of aluminum will be a lot different to work with as far as sanding, etc... later when I make the vibraphone.
In the online ad for these plans about vibraphones, there are 3 types mentioned, something like T4, T5 & T6. I'm also wondering if using a different (cheaper) type of aluminum will be a lot different to work with as far as sanding, etc... later when I make the vibraphone.
#37
General Discussion / Re: Hey, someone here?
Last post by Jim McCarthy - November 02, 2012, 07:16:48 PMIt is alive if anyone has something on topic to say!
I myself will definitely reply to any post!
I myself will definitely reply to any post!
#38
General Discussion / Hey, someone here?
Last post by Vykola - November 02, 2012, 12:35:22 AMHi, is it me or is the forum dead ?
#39
Instrument BARS & tuning / Re: Thickness of Glockenspiel ...
Last post by Jim McCarthy - October 15, 2012, 10:17:44 AMIn general the 1/4" bars would be fine. For those specific plans - because the higher bars are quite short, you might find that you end up tuning the whole instrument an octave higher than you would with the thinner bars. That would actually bring it more into line with concert glock pitch range. technically thicker bars will always start higher in pitch than thinner ones, and technically you can lower them as much as you like by simply grinding away more material from the arch - but of course in practice there does come a point where it becomes difficult to lower the bar further without destroying the bar!!! But in general 1/4" thick bars would actually be better - this specific plan I feel you would either end up with an octave higher (which is fine) or you could change the bar dimensions so that your upper bars wer not so short. If you did that you would of course have to change the frame dimensions to suit.
Jim
Jim
#40
Instrument BARS & tuning / Thickness of Glockenspiel Bars
Last post by Breeding - October 14, 2012, 12:02:28 PMI note that the thickness of the aluminum bars called for in the guide to build a basic glock is 1/8 of an inch. I already have some aluminum bars but they are 1/4 inch thick. Is it ok to use them or are they too thick to,make a good glock ?